right then, in response to adham’s blog post (which can be found here), here’s a thread on swearing in poetry.

adham, how do you feel about poetry that kind of explores the effect of swearing? i’m thinking in particular of addonizio’s ‘fuck’, which can be found here. it’s based around the word, which could change your argument a bit. anyway it’s not the best poem ever or anything, it’s a bit over the top, but i think its use of the word fuck in a few different ways is the best thing the poem has going for it.

hmm, i like that poem. i think that my problem with swearing is that it often does indicate “a serious lapse of taste, or imagination” because its not used properly. swearing can be used to good effect, and exploring the meanings of words is good too, but what i dont like is people using it unnecessarily or unimaginatively. its like dropping a chili into a meal when what it needs is pepper, and if you have chili too often, you get used to it and the effect is lost. also, you get diarrhea, which isnt cool either

i dunno though, cos a lot of my poems are quite dialogue-y and i swear a lot just in casual conversation (depending on who i’m talking to), so what if i’m trying to represent that? i don’t think swearing is like a chili because to some people it’s just kind of filler, and filler doesn’t work in a lot of poetry because filler isn’t what poetry’s about (every word’s got to be necessary), but sometimes the filler can help make a point. i don’t swear that often in poetry, but i don’t think that swear words should be used any more cautiously than any other word. all words should be considered and used sparingly, you know?

In my opinion, and I don’t mean to sound like a teacher, it’s all to do with your audience and what you’re trying to achieve with the poem. I think everyone can agree that swearing is at times unsuitable - you wouldn’t expect Blake to be full of swear words - but it is necessary in some cases. It’s like art really; you wouldn’t daub every painting with a sponge, but sometimes, if you’re looking for a different effect, you have to employ a different technique. :)

Plus the fact, I rather enjoy the odd swear word - who doesn’t?! :D

O man when Blake does swear though it is the best thing ever and completely supports your point about how enjoyable it is:

When Klopstock England defied,
Uprose William Blake in his pride;
For old Nobodaddy aloft
Farted and belch’d and cough’d;
Then swore a great oath that made Heaven quake,
And call’d aloud to English Blake.
Blake was giving his body ease,
At Lambeth beneath the poplar trees.
From his seat then started he
And turn’d him round three times three.
The moon at that sight blush’d scarlet red,
The stars threw down their cups and fled,
And all the devils that were in hell,

Answerèd with a ninefold yell.
Klopstock felt the intripled turn,
And all his bowels began to churn,
And his bowels turn’d round three times three,
And lock’d in his soul with a ninefold key; . . .
Then again old Nobodaddy swore
He ne’er had seen such a thing before,
Since Noah was shut in the ark,
Since Eve first chose her hellfire spark,
Since ‘twas the fashion to go naked,
Since the old Anything was created . . .
If Blake could do this when he rose from a shite
What might he not do when he sat down to write?

I’ve been fretting over the swear words in my pamphlet. By my count, I’ve got three ‘good’ ones and two that could (possibly should) have been switched for something else. The good ones are in the title ‘Bullshit-related Injuries in the A&E’, the word ‘shat’ in a single line poem (the first poem in the book) and the phrase ‘Serious, bird’s nest/which-wind-did-I-fuck bedhair’ in a translation.

I’m not sure exactly why I think these ones are good and the other two are more problematic, but I think it has to do with how ‘surprising-yet-appropriate’ they are. I think, principally because of what Adam said about swearing being distracting, they have to try to intentionally surprise (or shock) the reader, at least a little, but then also hold up to more severe scrutiny, in terms of suiting the voice etc. The swear words which don’t work so well are used too casually, and because of that, ironically, I think they sound like they’re *trying* to be shocking but failing.

I agree on the intending to suprise front. After all, isn’t that one of the most fundamental aims of poetry (if poetry does have an aim), to shake the reader up a bit and cause them to see life in a new light?

I think Leonore Kandel illustrates this point. Swearing certainly can be very effective in erotic poetry. The poem by Kim Addonizio seemed to me like a toned-down version of these three poems.

(WARNING: If you’re not a fan of intense, “gushy” writing, it would perhaps not be advisable to check out Kandel.)

kate - sure, poetry can be used to wake people up, as it were, but ive heard/read some pretty mediocre poems which basically go “mumblemumbleflibbetsnorflewhingeblah…FUCK!!” which seems to me the equivalent of going “this is a pretty boring poem, but im gonna fool you into thinking its edgy and cool by SHOUTING IN YOUR EAR!!”. like i said, im not against swearing, but its use has to be tempered, not least because if used to often it ceases to be shocking anymore

btw, just had a look at the link you posted, kendal seems fun! i think swearing in erotic poems is different from swearing in other kinds of poetry tho, isnt it?